Posted by eileen on February 27, 2003 at 18:54:58:
In Reply to: Re: PC at Design Community? Nah! Surely Not! posted by Scratchy on February 27, 2003 at 15:26:40:
I am sitting here in LA....... a couple of thoughts from here.
an earlier professional incarnation, I did military sales presentations for Northrop Corporation in the late 70's. My employers sold military hardware to Saddam along with Israel, India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and just about country over there, with the full assistence and approval of a succession of US administrations (Nixon, Carter, Ford, Reagan, etc). Saddam did not happen overnight. His coup was what we wanted. We invented the villain that this administration (and the one of his father) loves to hate. The US doesn't want Saddam not to have weapons, just not truly competitive ones like those of the US. These people are not going to march over to the new world and occupy us in any of our lifetimes. It is outside their capability or interest. Most of their neighbors have enough ethnic differences to be able to diffuse thru civil unrest any effective shift either. The biggest internal threat to Saddam and to its neighbor Turkey are the Kurds. The US State Dept website, if you go for a visit and look at security advisories for US citizens travelling abroad specifically lists the PKK (an eastern Anatollian based Kurdish terrorist group)as a force to be avoided when in Turkey.
Second, when it comes to reasons to go to war we ought to look at our prior reasons that are recognized by our own rules as valid. The former Soviet Union and The People Republic of China also still have and have had for years those evil WMD's. They did not attack us our our allies nor did we ever go toe to toe and invade their souvereign soil, etc. If we did not attack them, why is the present Bush administration using a previously untested criteria as a grounds for starting a pot of trouble? We have no valid grounds according to our own rules so they are inventing the rules as they go along. I think it is for lots of other reasons that are not discussed either by my govt. (US) or people privy to the reality hidden from view.
3) In the US we have a lovely record of doing things in the self interest of businesses and corporations. We have contributed to the destabilization of intermediate and lesser powered nations for a wide variety of reasons and thru a wide range of methodologies. If anyone is really interested, examine the policies of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. A great and difficult comprehensive read is "Globalization and Its Discontents" by Joseph E. Steiglitz on W.W. Norton & Co, NY & London. Sieglitz, an academic, served under US Pres. Bill Clinton as a member of the Council of Economic Advisors and served as chief economist of the World Bank and a SVP from 1997 until 2000. Its a nasty picture of how to mess with people worldwide, making the poor poorer...................
4) The US has technologies that it will not admit to knowing - much less having. We probably have some knowledge of intent or activity that if revealed would weaken our position in relation to others as a top dog. They would know what we know and we would be vulnerable for it. Probably the guy is up to more no good....... but he is well adapted to playing our (US) games by our (US)rules. The present administration is parading & walking straw dogs. As long as we exist in a environment that is defined by "rule of law" we should abide by our own rules. The present administration in the US appears hell bent on redefining the middle east. They started bombing Iraq in the no-fly zones two days ago. We are already actively engaged in war.
5) The UN stopped doing scehduled and publicized flybys(surveillance) of the no-fly areas of Iraq well before this current situation escalated or was even discussed. The Kurds in Northern Iraq complained vehemently to the UN, etc about their security concerns regarding Saddam, and this was back in 2000 - 2001 as I recall. It never made the press in the US. I read it in at http://www.turkishdailynews.com/. The UN fly-bys had gone from 2 a day to about 1 weekly. Wassup with that? Look at what is going on now, and it makes me wonder.
6) in the war on terrorism.......... my favorite press distortion were maps of the Muslim world that showed every Muslim country clearly identified on a world map except for SAUDI ARABIA a while ago (either the LA Times or on CNN). Where did these lovely individuals come from who took issue with American Architecture as target and cultural icon? one guess. Where is Mecca?
7) Borders do not make cultural identity. If they did, Southern California would be separate country with Orange County and Los Angeles County as additional substates. Northern California would also be completely independent. They define imposed or accepted patterns of who has authority - not who is "right or wrong". Most of these Middle East borders are defined thru the efforts of the British and the US over the last century to weaken and divide. Afghanistan was created to divide Russia from China and India. It strategically controls the Khyber Pass of Kipling's Gunga Din reknown. The Balfour Agreement is another prime example. If someone put the state of Israel southeast of London or in Eastern Washington state, the reaction of the displaced oldtimers would be comparable. Sometimes the interests or reactions of larger groups are stirred by common emotions and vulnerablities. War serves no one except those whose economic interests hold control at the end. Another great read is by two Chinese army colonels, Liang & Xiangsui, "Unrestricted Warfare". It is about how to wage a war without the conventions of the past. There are no rules.
This is just my opinion, there is a shift in the ways of doing things just like computers and engineering have dramatically and forever altered what we design, how we design it and how it is produced and manufactured. It is not the best of all solutions, it's the one we have to deal with unless we adapt and improve. If we accept the patterns based on what has worked in the past, without thinking or considering every viable alternative as situations change, well, you see the results. The biggest weakness in the human species is to overvalue the past when living in the now. It is like being judged and condemned by the behaviour of your dead ancestors. The repulsions offered by the various parties in these posts on PCness in response to Gary (intelligent guy - by the way IMHO) are actually a good thing for all of us.
The key to great building, to successful anything and getting along is to accept change and sometimes even chase it down and tackle it instead of resisting it. Be educated and not necessarily in the formal sense. Do not believe all the myths that are accepted as reality. There is no control of anything, only accepting, conforming and adapting or changing. Everything is a fork in the road that brings us closer to understanding or in this case war. It is easier to have a conversation and bring ourselves into understanding of personal interests and goals finding a common chosen solution, that to punch someone in the face and then pay the plastic surgeon to put their face back on (reconstruction costs after a war).
And then their is the bottom, bottom line...........
if the terrorists achieved their goals successfully using a dollar and we spend $1 million in response, then the ant will win the arms race over all soldering and formal conventions of the past. We should carefully reflect what actually did in the Soviet Union on a glorious friday the 13th. The cost of the arms race bankrupted them into a day of individual revolution. poof.......... When millions upon millions walk into the streets around the world to speak their individual and heartfelt truths the perceived authoritarians should take notice. The first protests at the Mall in Washington were recorded as thousands. Aerial imagery not seen in the US media showed the gross underestimation reports by US media. 500,000 people. The largest anti-war protest since the Vietnam war.
You guys are generally very bright and stimulated by the posts here. Enjoy having a brain. Please use it.
I think Gary should keep it up.
Regards to all,
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