pricing charged

[carolynfleetwood]

I recently received a quote including design, all engineering/structural, etc. for a 50,000 s.f. apartment complex (approximately 70 units). I was expecting a quote of about $30K or so. The architect does nothing but local apartments, so there would be no extra work regarding researching codes or designs, etc. The quote came out to be $90K.

Does this sound excessive to you? How does an architect determine the costs?

[lekizz]

[AP]

[88]

Well at some coastal area here in California for $90 K design fee, if you are lucky, may be you can get a tiny building or small house done. A lot of it is not really "researching" the code. A lot of it are time spend on addressing and making changes to accomendate all the comments/opinion of the local agencies, special interests and neighbours.
A lot of people here spend that amount just on the design review.

[csintexas]

Hi Carolyn,
As you can see there are to many unknown factors to give you the answer to your question. I would think maybe the only way you can know is to talk with other architects in the area.

[TLWalkerAIA]

The best rule of thumb arises from the logic of the projects intent. If the intent is to shortchange design to the max and be as cheap as possible no matter what then the obvious fee basis would be established by that desperate designer unfortunately emerging with the lowest bid.

If the idea is to actually engage an architect to achieve design quality with cost control, as a guideline try an architectural fee of 10 percent as a medium and go up or down from there depending upon which architect delivers the best design quality and financial feasibilty analysis.

Apartments are constructed to make money for the owner, to generate positive revenue streams, and are built on speculation (owners risk) typically (excepting government housing projects). So, design quality which is the central focus of most architects effort is of a subordinated concern in the economic equation. The spectrum of architectural design exists from alpha to omega as driven by the following rules and all the lies between;

The equation that generally prevails in the building of apartments is; "That which is not compulsary is forbidden". (T.H. WHITE) This arises from the competitive nature of the speculative housing environment (or any environment). It is NOT a desirable outcome usually for the city but it is typically what is inflicted on the city by the systemic function of building housing for the purpose of generating maximum revenue streams and "affordable" housing at the lowest possible cost. Resource controls the outcome and design quality is subordinated.

The inverse of this function is; "That which is not forbidden is compulsary" this typically would be the function behind what architects publish when pushing the design to a new leading edge. Design quality controls the outcome and resource is upwardly flexible.

Your question somewhat reveals your intentions. The cost of constructing housing is high but generally the cost of good quality design combined with financial fesibility analysis of a market oriented housing project will actually save you money and in the aggregate result in better cities. I recomend a fee for the architect should never be lower than 8% of the cost to construct any building for human habitation but paying a bit more to "design for profitability" will make you money.

Terry L. Walker, AIA, MBA

[lekizz]

In fact it is positively scary and bewildering that 'carolynfleetwood' expected only to pay $30,000

[88]

TLWALKER is very correct. Pricing it right is the hardest thing for architect especially for those starting out due to lack of experience .
I am working on a 800 ft2 studio, no plumbing, no fire place, sandwiched between PCH and beach. The paper works and trips to meet and talk to all agencies , Example: coastal/Fire/Building/high way...... to come to term with a concept design is almost $20 K, Now we have not hired a soil engineer, foundation engineer or do start the real working drawing yet. If you price an 800 ft2 for 200ft2 per ft2 and 10 % of that is only $16K which is totally impossible.