Ancient Identical Walls: Tiwanaku-Bolivia, Hattusa, Turkey

[Ed Ziomek]

The walls of Sacsahuama, virtually identical stone cutting "signature" to Machu Picchu, Cuzco, Tiwanaku, and Hattusa.

[img]img]

http://ancientx.com/images/sacpan_a.jpg
http://www.ancientx.com/nm/anmviewer.asp?a=106&z=1

Note: Compare Machu Picchu with Yahoo/Google lookup on ...

"Maatiu Heteptiu", Egyptian for ..."Those who speak the truth of the Sun God Ra"

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/egyptian_heavenhell/ehh/ehh09.htm
THE KINGDOM OF KHENTI-AMENTI-OSIRIS ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF GATES
"The good are divided into two classes, "the HETEPTIU who praise RA," and the "MAATIU who dwell in the Tuat" (vol. ii., p. 93). The HETEPTIU are thus called because they made "offerings" (hetepet) to Ra upon earth, and burned incense to him; they also sang praises to RA and worshipped him upon earth, and uttered hekau, or words of power, against APEP, the arch-foe of Ra"

For more ancient technology phenomena, with a UFO bias-slant...
http://www.ufoarea.com/main_relics.html
http://www.ufoarea.com/main_relics11.html

[rain]

It looks very interesting.

[Ed Ziomek]

In my further pursuit of the identical stone cutting and Greek/Cretan/Hittite influences in ancient America, I think I have made some more interesting comparisons.

I have read that Easter Island is known to have two distinct racial cultures in ancient times, probably one polynesian race, and one tall-fair haired caucasian race. The stone-cutting in some parts may have been identical to Tiwanaku, Machu Picchu, and Hattusa. And as a surprise to me, the upright standing figures of Easter Island carry strong similarities (if not exact) with the standing figures of Tiwanaku and Thule in Mexico. I found similar figures displayed in the Heraklion Museum of Crete, further giving credibility to the Minoan, Hittite, Egyptian presence in the Andes some 3000-4000 years ago.



There is much more I will add later...on identical pottery displays, and tieing in the Nazca Geometric cultures...that will be my next addition.

[Ed Ziomek]

note: The previous figures were found in Heraklion Museum of Crete, and they may be female, not male.

In my research on more comparisons between Tiwanaku and Hattusa, I came across another tribe, unknown to me called the Hurrians. Originally from Iran, they emigrated into the Syrian/Turkey areas and were integrated into the Hittite tribal culture, probably in the 2500 to 1500BC timeframe. A very prominent "Ataman Hotel" located in Cappadocia took the time to graphically outline many of the stone glyphs, and from that effort, I think they may have deciphered the Nazca lines on the other side of the world, in Peru.

http://www.atamanhotel.com/whc/hattusa-yazilikaya-relief.html#147

In studying the graphical documents, I came across the fascinating similarity with the name depictions for the Hurrian Gods, which is displayed over one hand or another. These depictions or naming conventions are called "God Glyphs".



I immediately recognized the plausible connection between these God Glyphs and the figure etched into the desert plain of Nazca, in Peru. The "God Glyph" of Sharruma most clearly resembles that Nazca figure. Ironically, he is considered the "Son of the Storm God" Teshub, which is interesting in the sun-parched land of the high desert of Nazca.





http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9071812

There are at least 5 other Nazca similar objects among the Hurrian depictions which I could show, but this object seems to be the most interesting.

Note: This "God Glyph" connection may ruin a few alien stories surrounding this Nazca drawing.

[Ed Ziomek]

The following is not conclusive proof, but there are many more remarkably similar graphics between Nazca of Peru, ancient Turkey-Anatolia, ancient Crete.

Just as I suspected:

1. ancient stone masonry offers unique "signatures" that can be traced and compared, even when on the opposite sides of the world...

2. ancient pottery offers similar "signatures" that can be compared...

3. ancient graphics found at Nazca in Peru can be compared favorably (I believe) with ancient pottery of Crete and Turkey.

In fact, I have researched the well documented period of ancient Greece and Crete, called the "Geometric period", wherein precise geometric designs saturated the arts and graphics of that region of the world. The Nazca geometric lines appear to be "positioned" within that artistic design period...

It is almost like a textbook evolution of art and graphics and architecture...

...from the rigid human stick figures of the Geometric period... 900 BC to 700 BC, to the Classic Greece period of 400 BC showing precise anatomical humanistic paintings and graphics and sculptures.

...from the block-cut stones of pre-Olympian Greece, to the rounded curved precisely cut stone walls, to the magnificent carved marble structures of Athens during its Classical period.

While the following figures are only "coincidental" and inconclusive as to exact proof, there are striking similarities of geometric style between the Nazca figures and ancient Cretan/Hittite/Greek figures found on pottery and stone walls.





I will do more pottery comparisons next.

Special thanks to Ancient-Greece.org, and the Heraklion and Sitia Museums
http://www.ancient-greece.org/museum/muse-iraclion.html
http://www.ancient-greece.org/museum/muse-sitia.html

[Ed Ziomek]

Again we have more comparisons that offer coincidental similarities, virtually identical in my eyes, but not proof of anything.

These interesting comparisons have made me discover so many side stories, I have to hold back myself...how much is imagination, how much is similarity, how much is real.

The answer firmly points in the direction we have read all along, that the Mesopotamian areas of Iraq, Syria, the Indus Valley, Turkey-Anatolia, Crete, Greece, Turkey, Cyprus...this is the center of the ancient world from which many "knowledge cultures" evolved.

Of course my focus in this thread is on the evolution of the Western Hemisphere and the Tiwanaku cultures of the Andes mountains, for which I have found several previous authors who have also stated the connections to Babylon, Sumer, Greece, etc.

So, for more interesting comparisons...

Could the space alien figure of Nazca be the Athenian "Owl" figure?


Pottery comparisons from the Halaf culture (Babylon-Iraq), Egypt, Mycenian, Cyprus, showing geometric figures similar to the Nazca lines. In addition, as has been published, the Nazca lines show elements of "Maze" and "Labryinth" features, made famous by King Menos of Knossos in Crete, the land of the "double axe". Nazca figures, and many pottery figures of the geometric design show connectivity amongst other surrounding figures. I can only guess the Nazca designs were meant as if religious treks were made following the paths of the "attached" figures, often miles in duration.



Finally, a similar artistic style is shown in a Babylonian lion, a Hittite lion, and an Incan era Puma.

[Ed Ziomek]

One of the more puzzling mysteries is how colossal stones of 20 to 200 tons were moved over great distances.

I have come across a Babylonian explanation on www.aina.org, the Assyrian International News Agency.



Along with a few previous authors, I am connecting the dots between the ancient Babylonian/Sumerian cultures and the Tiwanakus, Mayans, Aztecs, etc.

Having this theory suggests that the methods of colossal stone movement of the Babylonian Temple builders may be identical to Incan, Mayan, Aztecan and Egyptian methods.

[P.C.]

Im am not saying that what you suggest is wrong --- that someone made a drawing, do that realu prove anything ?

I know it could be said to be far out, but realy , if you wanted to make a con trick, the pyramides and these huge impossible heavy items are just the right thing , or shuld I say they was the exactly right thing just a few hundred years ago , to presave those times best engineers how great povers must have been displayed.
But I se no prove in a stone dig, where halve ready stones are prepared to show or prove anything, -- it is still easier to manufactor a stone dig, than building a pyramide ; and if it is about "proving" who build these pyramides, then it is not more difficult than to manufactor "the place" where they got the stones. That way you con anyone ot is an old trick.

Now scientists would newer think such con-ness would exist ; for what reson shuld anyone lie like that about "who" had the powers, they would think and happily there are a lot of "clues" left anywhere to spin a story sp strange, so impossible that without this con thinking, no one would ever belive that as it is crazy to just belive, that a vessel could be constructed to hold those stresses --- esp. when other founds prove the state shipsbuilding was in , not at all up to the expertations of being able in a low watered mud beach to be even loaded with one of these stones, without hitting the bottom , hopelesly stuck in the mud. Impossible.

A story again made by englishmen.

Now when just counting the people and calculating the weight of such statue , I mean the lie are there right in the "drawing" of how it happened these stones was transported, and yet you belive That, becaurse someone made a drawing ????

[P.C.]

I simply don't "belive" that drawing, ; everything is wrong, the skies under the stone would be out of sight so the artist would not be able to decide their form, these folks is not pulling the rope, in upright statur, 4 people could impossible move a millimeter in that dasion walking and those hanging in the rope aft, how would anyone think, they would do anything, but pull the break forcing the front part down, --- even the guy pulling a two wheel carraige looks more true, atleast he look right , the others would have to be not 4 but hundreds, and their posision pulling, would be more near horisontal than upright walking vertical. --- one could emagine such con sold, to prove the king's povers, --- but what if the whole thing was made with concrete, something more clever, with sand , same color almost, all way around ; even today you would not chip out such huge things, but cast them to even be able to manufactor them.

[Ed Ziomek]

PC, I sincerely thank you for your valid response and disbelief. I too am skeptical when I see a Singapore skyscraper under construction today, 40-60 floors up, and the workers using bamboo and ropes. Impossible I say. A fake for sure? No. Its happening in Hong Kong too.

The drawing that I show with the megalith, I think I know what makes it work. There are three pulling ropes: The first one is massive horizontal strand out of the sled, into the left frame "A". Put 100 men on this horizontal pull, or some oxen. Then you have a front rope pull "B", and a rear rope pull "C". At the rear, you have the lever and several men leveraging out the bottom "D".

Could it not be that it is a rock and slide, coordinated movement, using the weight of the stone in a rocking motion, where at some key point, the momentum of the stone is thrust slightly up in the rear with a pull at "C" rope, wherein the effective weight of the stone is dramtically reduced, and at that apogee of the rocking motion, a coordinated pull on "A" and "B" occurs, wherein the forward part of the stone is pulled forward, subsequently aided by the descending weight of the rear of the stone towards the front.

Hence, forward motion of the sled. The only dilemma is that the sled might plow into the earth, and that is prevented by placing skids under the sled.

Likewise, a statue on this sled could be set upright with a coordinated series of rocking motions, upending the statue onto a platform.

Note: I believe this drawing is probably an ancient version of confidential information, because larger stones created thicker walls, for better protection, and why give away your method of transporting and installing large meglithic defensive wall-stones?

PS...let me give you my latest observation, another significant clue to the Nazca lines... that what has been known as "the alien", and what I identified as "Sharruma", is most probably 2000 years later evolved into the Aztec "Tlaloc", God of Rain. He is known as "google" eyes, with large roundish frog eyes.

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/aztec-mythology.php?deity=TLALOC

PC...I don't expect you to believe anything. But please don't underestimate the architectural abilities of the ancients. Their pyramids were real and still standing. Their stone cutting was real and beyond what we can do today. Their marble statues were real and virtually unmatched with most modern sculpting. How can you deny such massive talents that still are with us, 3000, 4000 years later?

[P.C.]

Ofcaurse you can be right, -- but it is not about being right or wrong. I think that when so many years passed , well in all these years politics changed, religion changed , and very early the fact knowleage could easily be lost, so later generations needed an explanation and that explanation, when the original knowleage gone lost, maybe due to lack of sufficient written language , but over generations maybe someone thought these monuments could be used to back up "How we do things not" --- that is without magic but by hands.

I hoe you understand my misbelive is somewhere scientific , I do not say I am right and the possible way's I suggest , could be as wrong as what the Englishmen been explaining since the pyramides became an english trend , many myths are possible to extract from things we can not understand, but as an example I am sure the pyramides might be 40 thousand years old, but that later kings found entrances they decored and claimed their right to -- even claimed they build the pyramides where the words maybe mean that they prepared their chambers in the pyramides --- who know ; language are often interprented into what we wish them to mean, and these languages are not yet fully understood .

[P.C.]

Please also know , that I am very suspect about the englishmen when they tell stories about human sacrifise ---- remember when these stories first began, they was political smooth to explain how these savage aincient people acted in way's the victorian england simply loved.
Saveage people sacrifising people under their fake god m and all these pictures (maybe propeganda from opposite side warning about what the evil enemy was doing or what concoured kingdoms was doing to their population, --- before this new king came to pover. Or before this new religion came to pover , but everything that make a good story make good money, and what is wrong forgetting science or doing things in the name of science, when the caurse are good.
You see I became tired of englishmen bragging about the savage human sacrifaying cultures ; this is presented as an horror film rather than facts and remind more of stories told by priests , to justify their acts now, towerds the saveage. Also pictures and words is from my oppinion more likely to be used to tell a lie, one that will survive with the sad fact that when a lie are told, it prove itself by it's words -- here the words are pictures, we don't know if these mean what we think, if they was propoganda against the opposite side, or just some guy who wanted to kill magic belive, and replace it with bare facts ; "this is how you can move these stones, try with some smaller first -- and do not belive those fake belivers who will say the gods placed the pyramides there". Remember how fast actural knowleage can be lost and remember than an explanation will allway's be looked for.

[Ed Ziomek]

I have just been informed on the History Channel forum site of an exhibition in Monterey Mexico comparing Aztecan architecture, artwork, pottery, mythology, and its uncanny likeness to ancient Egyptian works.

Rrom Reuters...
http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnN24278139.html

What they can only imagine at this time is that there were 175 + cultures in the Mesoamerica mix that have been identified, with Egyptian being a very huge part, as were the Greeks, Assyrians, Mycenean, Asians, etc.

But what this local recognition does is open the door for the ultimate mystery for amateur historians like myself, Atlantis - of course, which pre-dates Egyptian and Greek cultures, we are told. And as mentioned many times, it certainly tantalizes my research when I find so many Atlantean naming conventions saturated in the Valley of Mexico area, such as...

Atlatzinco...A-t-la-tos-in-ka

Atlauntenco...A-t-lan-ten-in-ka

Atlaco...A-t-la-so...(there is also a location called...A-t-leesh-ko)

Atlacualco..."A-t-la-cua-lee-so"
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3420/tpeyacac5zr5.jpg
(note the companion place name... Tepeyacac...I say is "Hill or Iachos"

Atlacuinuayan
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1908/2atlanscloseupuu7.gif

Atlazolpa...A-t-la-sol-pa

Atlapulco ...the Polis of A-t-la

Atlipac...At-la-pas
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/175/aztecmapatlipac2kz2.gif

Atlanco... A-t-lan-in-ka
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2608/6saveatlantiscentralmn3.gif
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/317/atlancowl6.gif

Atoyac...A-to-yas...A-to-lass
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/401/gatewayleftatollas2sz9.gif

Found on the map "Plano reconstructivo de la región de Tenochtitlan" -1973- by Luis Gonzalez Aparicio
http://www.bereda.com/losos/L-M/frames4.htm
(hit the top-left button called "Mapa Antiquo")

More and more, I am finding proto-Greek symbolism among the Nazca graphics, kinda-sorta teasing me of Atlantean references, such as a Poseidon-style trident....


-And celestial columns at Nazca, virtual "pillars" pointing North-South where the "celestial heavens spin on an axis", plausibly pointing to the Pole star, or to Saturn, or...who knows.



Celestial column explanation...
http://www.seshat.ch/home/symbols.GIF

http://www.seshat.ch/home/homepage.htm

Franz Gnaedinger, Zurich, an amazing "numerologist" and archaeo-astronomer of sorts...

also...

http://www.kronia.com/library/journals/polarcfg.txt
The land ruled by the creator-king is the land of the four rivers, also depicted as a celestial domain supported by the four pillars, which turn out to be four extensions of the central mount or column.

Compounding the confusion are the ancient mythologies which were locked into star arrangements and coincidences that do not now appear, such as Moon-Venus associations (what might be the "alien, google-eyed" image).

Much more on this next.

[Ed Ziomek]

While I have found my material in a hundred different libraries, magazines, internet locations, and personal tourist visits to ancient architectural wonders, the following theories and information may still take 100 years to decipher correctly.

Let me table the ideas for all of us to review. Let future experts judge me right or wrong, it is important to present these ideas....

As a complete amateur, try and imagine blending 200 ancient cultures across 5 continents over the last 5000 years, with hundreds of Gods, with multiple names of those Gods, genders that switch, roles which reverse, constellations which appear and disappear, and you might understand the challenges of deciphering Nazca.

For me, the most significant clue is the "google-eyed-alien" figure from Nazca, which I backtracked all over the world across the last 5000 years of overlapping mythologies.


It is most probably related to Draco, aka Tlaloc/Tlalos, Tiamat, Thallasus, Hercules, and somehow associated with Venus, Ishtar, the primordial ocean, the womb, the snake, and the rising sun...sometimes female, sometimes depicted as male. Confusing to me, yes! I truthfully understand only some of it, and I certainly try to explain it to the best of my abilities, but it certainly started to unlock doors for me.

Here is a google-eyed Nazca figure, I call "Herculean" in style, with club....very probably also known as the Draco-dragon constellation. Note: Before Atlas held up the world, it was the job of Hercules to hold up the "celestial sky/world".

http://www.world-of-mysteries.com/film/media/WoM-Web-Nazca-483px.jpg
Nazca Graphic Map from Crystallinks.com....


from Nazca Lines and Culture
http://www.crystalinks.com/nasca.html

On the North-westerly side of this Nazca map is a hummingbird figure with the zig-zag body of a snake pointing Northeast. Again, on the amateur guesswork side, this may be the "bird snake" actions of the "Celestial-column" motions of Jupiter, the largest planet of the solar system, and probably related to Kronus and/or Zeus. Jupiter is one of five planets that "retrograde" zig-zags in our earthly perception of its travels in space. Likewise, it may have been part of the pole-star arrangement in ancient times, Northern celestial-spinning of the cosmos. (Astronomers, help me out on my theories, possibly it is ??? Saturn of 5000 years ago?) The bird-snake figure is attached to a celestial column which also seems to end in a celestial-spiral shape on the North-eastern corner.

At about the 4 o'clock position of the graphic, the Nazca google-eyed figure is headed generally East, towards the rising sun. A few dagger line "celestial column" figures also point in the same direction. In my amateur guesswork, I call this figure representing the Eastern-facing, Solar-centric "Tlaloc-Titan" direction. I believe this google-eyed figure, later associated with the "owl of Athena, Ishtar, and Venus", follows a "Mother earth", "Father Sky" type of theology, with major Sun, Moon, Venus devotions. In very early times, this Tlaloc figure was called "the decapitator", and was female!
Universe-centric theology, versus Solar/Planetary-centric theology (my theory)

Gods fighting Gods....
The net-net is that the Nazca lines may explain the cataclysmic ancient "war" between the Greek/Olympians, and the Mycenean/Hurrian/Titans (my phrase). This "war" may have been over a theologic power struggle: those believing in the Celestial center of the cosmos (celestial theology-Zeus), and the Solar/planetary center of our earth (Titan-Atlas centric).

Next up... Reincarnation!

Based on everything that is now unveiling to me, rightly or wrongly, it is even more interesting with the possibility that names like Aten of the Egyptians (AkhenATen), and ATlas to the Greeks, and ATlantis, and even the "Garden of EDen", all may be related to the identical idea: Creation of Life, Life in the Garden of Eden, then Life after death, -re-incarnation.

And the symbol on the Tula figures, and the walls of Teotihuacan, and Mount Tlaloc? The butterfly, the Greek Psyche, the "soul"... caterpillar, coccoon, butterfly...life, death, rebirth! The circle of life. The "A-T", Eternity. Where else in the world does the butterfly have so much prestige?

Speculating: Our single Sun, the "A-Ten", the center of our solar system, may have been considered the "one true god" of the "A-T", "Eter-nity" theology, which created life, which also took lives, and which provided a path for "life after death". Life, death, resurection.

And at the center of it all? The google-eyed Tlaloc, in an Atlas pose, holding up the sky!


And on the top of Mount Tlaloc, at 4000+ meters high, on the Eastern side of the Valley of Mexico, the Egyptian-style Ankh symbol of "Life", or the Babylonian "I-O-T" symbol of eternity, and the astrological Venus symbol, facing the rising Sun.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sflei/460677367/

[Ed Ziomek]

In my further research, I actually found an explanation for the megalithic stone building and wall fortifications found at Machu Picchu, Sacsahuama, Cuzco. This method of large-size stone building was known to the Greeks and Mycenaen cultures as "Cyclopean".

http://forums.atlantisrising.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000161.html

Forum discussion from Dawn Moline....

The Mycenaean civilization
"The Mycenaean civilization took it name after the discovery of Mycenae, the first site where this culture was identified.
As shown by the excavations, the Mycenaean society was formed with an elite group organised around the judicial and executive authority of a single figure, with varying degrees of power. Their citadels were fortified with the "Cyclopean" walls, called this way for the reason that Greeks believed that only Cyclopes could have lift stones that large."

Bronze Age Fortifications: A Dualistic Interpretation

J. Paga, University of Iowa

The Cyclopean fortifications surrounding the Bronze Age sites of Mycenae,

http://www.uiowa.edu/~montage/issues/2006/paga.pdf


The Politics of the Walls

"Walls measuring up to five meters thick, however, go far beyond the defensive measures that would have been necessary to withstand Bronze Age weaponry.

There is, therefore, a secondary aspect of Cyclopean walls: the conspicuous display of wealth and power. In addition to fortifications, dams, roads, canals, and tombs were also built in Cyclopean masonry. The erection of these structures implies a high level of cooperation and social cohesion among a population, and, as part and parcel of this, the power and command of the ruler, capable of organizing and bringing to completion these large-scale projects. Surely the tholos tombs at Mycenae were constructed in this fashion in order to impress. Such tombs did not require Cyclopean masonry for their erection and were not intended as defensive structures. The goal here is solely the visible articulation of power and wealth....

The symbolic monumentality of the walls and their clear defensive purposes seem to imply a competition of sorts, or a tension, between the various sites. This dialectic is further explicated by the possibility that the destruction of the Mycenaean capitals during LH IIIC was fueled by rivalry and hostility between neighboring sites.15 Under this theory, therefore, the massive walls were erected both as a precautionary measure and as a scare tactic."