Famous Architects - "gods" or cultural icons?

[djswan]

I kinda miss the author of this topic and some others. I'm a big fan of freedom of speech. I gain strength from a challenge. I assume others do too. I found this forum by searching for design.

Are ideas only valid if someone pays for them?

[Design&Render]

I miss 'em too DJ.... Problem is, it seems only the "politically DC correct", or those who do not challenge the status quo, that end up getting heard on these modern architecture forums.... those who wish to control and "protect" the forum end up doing the forum a disfavor, by abolishing freedom of speech in removing them from the forum discussions. Then, there are the web bullies to blame, who also end up getting some of the best posts and members banned, by their behavior which has been clear on these forums. Good some of those are no longer around....

As far as Solidred, Mx comments and those of others, many great thoughts rolling around these forums, and much to be discussed, in keeping with the original topic... I only hope in this round the topic visitors will come about and listen to the voice of freedom on this forum and give back to those what was taken from them for no reason. You know what I am referring to. We all wish to have a voice, be heard, and be respected. I say let the voice of freedom, liberty and freedom of speech prevail. And let them understood it was all done but for no other reason then for the construction of a better forum....which they failed to see.... I am with you now DJ, I uphold your thinking and keep up the good open mind you always had. And, how about back to boat building?

[csintexas]

I have never seen anyones "freedom of speech" prevented here. I believe usarender was criticized for spamming the same thing over and over again.

Everyone simply got tired of having to wade through his ramblings. There is a difference between free speech and the freedom of inappropriate behavior.

People are free to walk around in public but they are not free to do so with no clothes.

[djswan]

Yes, I remember now. thanks chris. I try to keep my talk of the recently forum departed, respectful. Ghost can be anywhere, lurking in a can of spam.

[Design&Render]

Oh is that right .....hummm.... I didn't see anyone criticized as much as this last guy just who popped up criticizing another member - and this guy has certainly been criticized himself on various occasions for spamming his house designs on these forums, for his remarks which lack thought, for his lack of insight on the topics and with brute un-insightful remarks which are out of place, off topic, demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the topics and himself has acted on various occasions as a forum "bully". And all along he was among those who were opposing the insightful remarks of the person who created this topic, in a campaign against his topics, together with other forum members, among them some who have been banned from the discussions, due to the confusion these people are creating. If this type of opposition against other forum members is not removal of freedom of speech then what is..... One has to do just a little digging to see truly these people are doing this forum a disfavor and others are being tarnished by their brute remarks. There are many on these forums who have appreciated these topics of Mx, Solidred, Usarender, Richard Haut, Natural Law Student and others. Nobody has the right to criticize these forum members or remove their right to freedom of speech. And certainly not a web "bully".

It seems these people are good at deviating away from the forum topics.

Now for this topic - the contrast between "Gods" and "Cultural Icons" certainly main seem two fragmented, distant ideas that are not correlated, unless we do a little more digging. Certainly to consider fellow architects as sort of "gods" or "demigods" would be a little extreme. The idea of cultural icons has been picked up well by Richard Haut in his comments. It seems this best expresses the idea of famous architects, as they become a referential typology which culturally represent the values, aspirations, ideas, and preferences of a select group of people. This cultural predominance seems to lie at the core of those who make the publicity decisions in the architectural realm. Particularly, those who publish the magazines, the contests, the jury and in the selection of the winners, too often biased to famous names, as Mr. Haut has pointed out. Thus, to become famous is a combination of luck, timing, being in the right place at the right time, getting the right big players to support your train of thought and getting accepted by mainstream design critique publicity channels. Thus, it is not always the best, the most intelligent, the most talented who are chosen, but those who maintain a set of ingredients necessary for global publicity, which they obtain and become thus famous.

Architecture now has certainly grown in diversity and channels, means of expression. But this certainly does not mean the profession has lost its way, as some have suggested. We are in a very exciting time of the profession, and a time when there is greater freedom of design expression. The braking away from the modernist dogmas signifies a new freedom of direction which at times can also lead to a profusion of confusion and bad design. It is the refined talented designer who is able to draw from the past, learn from it's errors and project into the future a unique expression of the ultimate liberty of his own soul as a designer, in his freedom of expression inbuilt into his design thinking. It is more of this that we are needing on these forums, rather then member bashing.

[lekizz]

With a name like that, Design&render, you may be well advised not to talk in tortured riddles about web bullies, or maybe people will confuse you with one of the late departed. Personally speaking, I don't miss that poisonous 3 month exchange of insults one tiny bit

[solidred]

Design and Render writes: "Architecture now has certainly grown in diversity and channels, means of expression. But this certainly does not mean the profession has lost its way, as some have suggested. We are in a very exciting time of the profession, and a time when there is greater freedom of design expression. The braking away from the modernist dogmas signifies a new freedom of direction which at times can also lead to a profusion of confusion and bad design. It is the refined talented designer who is able to draw from the past, learn from it's errors and project into the future a unique expression of the ultimate liberty of his own soul as a designer, in his freedom of expression inbuilt into his design thinking."
See, I think if you commit to the pursuit of a project like this and do it to a standard that, even if only you recognise as being the best you can achieve, then it doesn't really matter if you get famous. It would be worth doing for its own sake and my guess is that the reward; that feeling inside of such an achievement, would be worth some effort. Question is, how much sacrifice should someone make for their art? How much of a gamble on their life happiness and of those around them, should any individual take? Perhaps it's a good thing that genuine fame is something of a lottery. The distortion of values that it engenders is fundamentally against the grain of humanism, if not human impulses.

[csintexas]

How could I sacrifice for my art?

If I make the choice (which I have) to advocate designing things in a new green way even though it isn't now very popular is that a sacrifice?

The real sacrifice would be if I didn't do what I feel is right and instead amended my views in order to take the money.

If we have children depending on us we may have to make such a sacrifice.

[djswan]

[djswan]

[djswan]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jp-kc8u_1mI

I just saw this the other day. So that's it, I guess, "The Future of Architecture" in a nutshell. I guess we don't have to worry about it anymore. Did they know that humans maybe, (repeat)maybe, have caused some harm to this planet, when this was made. Charlie and Peter didn't mention anything about it.

[csintexas]

My attention deficit disorder got the best of me so I wasn't able to get through but a few minutes of the show. It turned out to be productive though because I was able to design two modern buildings:

[djswan]

Nicotine works for ADD. All the great ones puff a little or alot.

Hey, I just thought of a couple of modern designs, while typing this, lets race.

[csintexas]

I want to start competing with Gehry. I'm going to offer them at a discount rate. Even if I only charge a hundred thousand per design I figure I could make at least 10 million per year.

Environment? We don't care about no stinking Environment. It's all about quality of life Now -Lets have fun.

[mx2]

You may laugh Chris but there is something to your Eisenmann type sketch...the issue is not the paper napkin sketches, it's how you follow through into the built environment. The failure or success of a building is the days after it is occupied. How do you get to that point is what has long been debated by architects and builders since mankind began building huts...

Once we blurred the boundaries of societies around the globe, so too have the boundaries of architecture been blurred. Some, like myself, will criticize that lack of confinement, however since much is subjective it is very difficult to argue facts. Essentially the buildings that make the most noise, garner the most attention, seem to win...good or bad. That's a mistake in my book, just as I would criticize that bad celebrities ought not have such attention poured upon them. Bad celebrities always have an endeared following...but that doesn't prove they merit an awards. Being famous (infamous) is not proof of quality work. And that's the point about "cultural"...

mx2.5