DesighWork vs SketchUP

Discuss DesignWorkshop design-oriented 3D CAD and associated CAD and architectural rendering and design media topics. Moderated by the Artifice support team.

DesighWork vs SketchUP

Postby blair » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:19 pm

Thinking about buying the latest version of DesignWorks but I am wondering! Has anyone ever used a program called SketchUp. If so, what does it have to offer that DesignWorks does not? Is SketchUp a program that you also have in your toolbox to use for specific purposes and if so what are those specific purpose. One thing I am trying to determine is whether or not it might be of value to purchase both programs and how each might be used in conjunction with CAD programs such as AutoCAD, ArchiCAD, Chief, SoftPlan etc. At the SketchUp website I also see some fine work and a lot of folks there also use a program called Artlantis and another program called Piranesi (which is mentioned here) in conjunction with Design WorkShop. There are so many good programs around and it is hard to figure out which are the best MUST HAVES. If one uses DesignWorks what do other programs such as Lightwave/Light... have to offer? What are the top 5 programs that the PRO's use?
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Postby Kafka » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:31 pm

I think DesignWorkshop (DW) is superior to Sketchup (SU), I am a big fan of DW, I used for almost five years, the main difference I see is that SU is all about faces, not volumes as DW is.

Anyway I bought and use SU (it runs on OS X, classic enviroment produces kernel panics in my Mac) Its not the best but SU is nice, simple and has some nice features (sun, sketch render, etc...). I miss DW, but all I can do is to pay a visit now and then to this site (nice new forums!...), hoping they announce an OSX version...

For the other questions, I use SU for the first volumetric ideas and presentations... (sometimes with the help of Artlantis) When it comes to the real project I use VectorWorks (2d+3d) and then Artlantis and Cinema 4d for the renderings and 3d presentations...

Thats all I need, and I am not capable to learn any other soft ;-)
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Also waiting for OSX version of DW

Postby Rolando » Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:38 am

Ditto on Kafka's comments. I also have problems running the Classic Environment on OSX so I refrain from using DW and check here periodically hoping that an OSX version of DW will be announced.

Of course, Brian may be using Windows, in which case the OS9 classic environment problem would not be an issue for him.
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It really sounds like many would buy a new revision of DW.

Postby Jeff Morgan » Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:16 pm

Good morning Kevin...
....this is your wake-up call.
Jeff Morgan
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DesignWorkshop in the Classic Environment is reliable.

Postby David Owen » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:19 pm

In my personal experience doing intensive modeling work with DesignWorkshop during a recent leave of absence, with the right configuration, DesignWorkshop running in OS X Classic is rock-solid, comparable or better to DW on Mac OS 9 or Windows.

While the choice of which OS to use and when to upgrade, is a personal decision, I'd suggest a decision-tree something like this:

<b>1. Be sure you're using the latest version of DesignWorkshop (v 1.8.6).</b>

DW 1.8.6 works well with Mac OS 9.1 and newer (including the OS X Classic Environment) and provides significantly improved opening speeds for larger .dw model files.

DesignWorkshop Lite users who need the update should contact <a href="">Artifice Support</a>. The updates for DW Classic and DW Professional are available for free to registered users through the <a href="">Confidential Owners Areas</a> of the Artifice web site.

<b>2. Make sure you have the latest updates of the Mac OS versions you own.</b>

Because Apple seems to have steadily improved Classic Environment support with each OS update, it's important to be sure you have the latest updates for both <a href="http://- abuse alert">Mac OS 9</a> and for the <a href="">Mac OS X</a> version you own.

<b>3. Be sure you haven't run into a known issue with DesignWorkshop that may come up regardless of the OS environment.</b>

If you continue to experience difficulties, even after updating DesignWorkshop and your operating systems, you may need to contact <a href="">Artifice Support</a> for further assistance.

<b>4. Consider upgrading to Mac OS X 10.3.</b>

While the Classic Environment works very well in both Jaguar (10.2.x) and Panther (10.3.x), we've found there is a noticable improvement overall, in the Mac OS X 10.3 Classic Environment.

I can say from personal experience that DW 1.8.6 is rock-solid running in the Mac OS 10.3 Classic Environment (with Mac OS 9.2.2). While on leave from Artifice, I recently completed an intensive thesis design studio in the architecture program at the University of Oregon.

For these courses, I regularly modeled in DesignWorkshop, running in the Classic Environment configuration I described above, dividing time between two G3 iBooks and a G4 minitower. Toward the end of the process, I used DW in the 10.3 Classic Environment on a more or less daily basis for as much as 12 hrs per day, for days on end.

I had no trouble developing a detailed DW building model, that was then integrated with an imported (from DXF) context model, and rendered in DW Lights & Textures mode and later in Radiance (also running on the same computers).

Bottom line: With the right configuration, DesignWorkshop can be run reliably on every supported OS.
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Re: Also waiting for OSX version of DW

Postby roberto paredes » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:12 pm

Rolando wrote:Ditto on Kafka's comments. I also have problems running the Classic Environment on OSX so I refrain from using DW and check here periodically hoping that an OSX version of DW will be announced.

Same here. I have to say that after getting help from Artifice I don't have problems running OS9 classic (updated printer drivers and developed workarounds when exporting; DW runs great on my G5 dual processor 1.5 Gig ram OS 10.3.9. Currently it's the only ap I use classic on but DW still does what I need done.
I bought Sketch-up a few weeks ago and I am still learning it but BOY what huge difference! I am having a terrrible time with edges and surfaces, editing blocks, no snap grids, BUt it does have some great interface improvements over DW . In general my feeling is that Sketch-up is a 3D "illustration" program while DW is a "3D design" program.
I like Dw's ability to edit blocks quickly via the info box, so I can draw what "feels" right and then adjust; in Sketch-up forms are more difficult to "adjust"; Sketch-up is more like "drawing"; DW is more like "constructing". Two totally different approaches. I thought I was going to be able "replace DW" with Sketch-up but i find myself now saying maybe I still model it in DW and then move it Sketch-up to make it more "presentable" (nice modes) or have more control over printing OR as a intermediate step to export to other rendering tools (it has MUCH better export filters).

IF Artifice releases an OSX upgrade I will be one of the first ones to get it.
roberto paredes
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Sketchup - etc

Postby Lumpy » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:06 am

Gidday Sketchup is a great tool. Have you heard of Spirit 14. See This system allows intergration with SketchUp models and has the Lightworks opackage for photo realistic rendering all in one. You can also bring in Microsoft word docs for editing etc. All while modeling in 2d a 3d drawing is modelled also.
Also see STi Inetnational.

I am no expert but have just seen a presentation. Brilliant.

Cheers Lumpy
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Postby studio » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:35 am

I have been using sketch up for 2 years, before that i was using archiCAD. If you are going to nice presentation impression... 3D max is a better option. anyway... sketch up allows architects to build what in their mind... a quick tool translating your idea into a model...
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DW vs. Sketchup and others

Postby Andrea » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:25 pm

Hello all. Well, after a year and a half working for a large commercial architectural firm using 3D STUDIO VIZ, I am happy to say I am back to rendering on my own part time and rediscovering what it was that I liked so much about Design Workshop. Although it took a few days to get back into the groove of using DW after VIZ, it wasn't long before I was cranking out models and renderings again. When it comes to creating presentation renderings in a few days, I don't think anything can beat the DW/ARTLANTIS/PIRANESI workflow that I have been using for years.

While there are a few features of VIZ I miss, such as the Bezier tools and the ability to keep the editablity of lines and slines, there are so many tools and settings and different ways to do things that in the end all of the options just overcomplicate things. It kind of takes the fun out of the modeling procedure because you have to think so much to complete the simplest of tasks. Therein lies the beauty of Design Workshop - the simplicity and intuitive tools make the whole process enjoyable. You have what you need to get the job done, and get it done quickly so you can move on to the next step.

I've also been using Sketchup quite a bit recently. I had to learn it more for troubelshooting than modeling - a partner at my firm uses it and frequently needs support. I don't know what it is about the software, but I am not fond of it. Maybe its because I learned how to model on DW and it just "feels" unnatural, or maybe its the UI which reminds me of one of my grade shooler's softwares. There are a couple of tools I like, but for the most part I just find it annoying.

I could go on and on about my frustrations with VRAY and MENTAL RAY for rendering compaired to ARTLANTIS, but thats a whole other post...

I'm running DW 1.8.6 on a dual processor G4 running 10.4 and I'm not having any trouble whatsoever. I have found DW to be quite stable, with the exception of a few minor bugs that have been around since the beginning, so I know to always save before I slice complicatedf objects!

I am curious as to what, if anything, is going on with the future development of Design Workshop. I realize, from a marketing standpoint, that Sketchup seems to be on a roll, especially with the Google/Sketchup union, but I strongly feel that DW fills a need in the modeling/rendering community. I'm glad to hear that there are still loyal users out there, such as myself.

Oh, and Kevin, FYI, I have met a lot of people through this employment experience that talk about what a great publication ArchitectureWeek is. Keep up the good work!

- Andrea Starkey
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Postby GaryV » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:30 am

Hi Andrea. It is good to hear from you. Sounds like you are back where you feel comfortable and effective. I too, have written about the methodological issues I have with SU. I think if I first learned to model with SU I would be OK. But if we could somehow blend the solid modeling model with some of the tools of SU it would be the hands down favorite especially if it had a strong built-in renderer or exports to one (like Piranesi, Radiance, or others).

I agree with your other post where you indicate that there are too many viewers and not enough posters. However, on the Mac side, the gradual yet eventual (we are already there) reliance on Classic has hurt on the Mac side. I am sure the Windoze side has probably not been hit as hard.

I too would like to know the answers to your questions. As you know Kevin has been very guarded about this. Maybe your questions are timely and he will be able to advise soon. One can hope anyway. I would love it if once again the board was alive with posts...kind of like the PowerCadd board - people helping others on a daily basis the way we used to do on the DW board. Soon? Perhaps and perhaps not. Let's keep the faith although I may get flamed here as I think I have in the past for taking the optimistic approach!

Good to hear from you...would love to see your posts as you progress and start producing from DW again.

One question to Artifice...why is there no link to the DW gallery from the Index Page?

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Re: Sketchup - etc

Postby utiler » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:24 am

Lumpy wrote:Gidday Sketchup is a great tool. Have you heard of Spirit 14. See This system allows intergration with SketchUp models and has the Lightworks opackage for photo realistic rendering all in one. You can also bring in Microsoft word docs for editing etc. All while modeling in 2d a 3d drawing is modelled also.
Also see STi Inetnational.

I am no expert but have just seen a presentation. Brilliant.

Cheers Lumpy
New Zealand

I'm with Lumpy on this one..... Spirit is great! i bought it late last year and works well with SketchUp. those of you who are not sure about SU, don't fold; it will service you well if you take the time to learn it......

This is my first post here, looks good, will be back!!

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