traditional new home project

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Re: traditional new home project

Postby unclebirgco » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:18 pm

The built-in or box gutter was a popular and practical architectural detail for many 19th and early 20th century homes. It allowed the simple function of draining roof water to be mostly hidden from view while maintaining the aesthetic appeal of exterior wood molding lines along porch and roof overhangs.

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Because it relied on the roof structure for support, this type of gutter was extremely strong and could withstand the weight of winter ice and snow without damage or collapse. Unfortunately, like so many architectural details from our past, the hand made craft of the built-in gutter was replaced by the mass produced hanging metal gutter system which enjoyed a huge cost advantage due to faster installation time and cheaper materials.

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More to follow on fabricating built-in gutters.......
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby phansford » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:39 pm

I'm sending Cousin Eddie a PM that you're taking credit for his work again. :lol:
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby unclebirgco » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:58 pm

Taking undeserved credit is an art
and a time honored tradition in our family. :D
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby phansford » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:44 am

Have you thought about doing an ebook about this project? It would be a great way to inform people how to build this type of house with all of the energy efficiencies and quality craftsmanship.

It would be easy - start with all your postings and photos here. Organize them from project start to finish.... fill in a few holes. I'd download it.
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby unclebirgco » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:22 am

phansford that's an excellent idea. :idea:
Thanks for the suggestion and your interest in the project.
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby KristoT » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:24 am

I just joined this forum and soon discovered this thread. I've got to say that I'm quite impressed. It seems like you've thought of everything in designing this house. The attention to detail is remarkable especially the woodwork throughout the house. This would make a good book on designing and building homes.
__________
Kristo - Looking for Boston contractors for an aggresive home remodel.
Last edited by KristoT on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby csintexas » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:30 am

You left out a key factor and that is the cost of the mortgage.
That is also an energy cost.


Chris, please explain, you lost me on this one.


I see I never explained this.
Your mortgage is a good representation of the embodied energy. In other words the higher the mortgage the more energy it took to make it. Also it takes energy to pay off that mortgage.

Yes, you could be more accurate by actually measuring the amount of energy embodied in each component but that would be difficult.

We would also need to factor in the energy cost over the life span.


If we want to reduce carbon emissions to a level considered to be safe by scientist we will have to include all energy use and not just utility bills. We will also need to consider that other people in the world deserve their fair share and so it is not just us here in the US but the total global carbon output that matters.
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby unclebirgco » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:30 am

Chris, Now I understand your point but using the term "mortgage"
was a little confusing. Maybe just the total cubic footage of a house is the best indicator of the amount of embodied energy expended to build it if we assume most building techniques in this country are fairly similar and a smaller structure is generally more efficient. The lowest energy consumption building methods (short and long term) should feature timber framed homes built with wood and stone from the site or a home built mostly from recycled materials. The obvious problem being that these types of homes are not built in large enough numbers to make a significant impact although every innovative energy efficient home is worth the effort with the hope that someday they will become the norm.
And I agree with you that we need to act locally but think globally.
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby csintexas » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:07 am

"Maybe just the total cubic footage of a house is the best indicator of the amount of embodied energy expended to build it if we assume most building techniques in this country are fairly similar and a smaller structure is generally more efficient."


Yes -I like that idea also.
It is an extremely complicated measurement but determining some average allows us to more easily include embodied energy.
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby unclebirgco » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:54 am

KristoT wrote:
I just joined this forum and soon discovered this thread. I've got to say that I'm quite impressed. It seems like you've thought of everything in designing this house. The attention to detail is remarkable especially the woodwork throughout the house. This would make a good book on designing and building homes.


Welcome to the forum and thanks for the positive feedback.
Locally, my goal is to encourage understanding and implementation of low cost, energy efficient building techniques to reduce energy/resource consumption
and I am hopeful of the possibilities when we can discuss and exchange ideas globally :idea:
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby unclebirgco » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:49 pm

Built-in gutters are fabricated using sheets of 16 or 22 oz. copper.
A metal break is used to cut the copper to width and bend it to the
planned or existing profile. The most important thing to remember when making built-in gutters is to never nail the copper to the roof or gutter form.

Image

A copper clip is fabricated from scrap copper which holds the gutter in place and allows it to move back and forth with temperature changes.

Image

When the clip is fastened and nailed to the roof deck, the flap is folded
over to help prevent the smooth copper nails from loosening up.
Always use copper nails and copper accessories to prevent galvanic action
between dissimilar metals.

Each gutter section is no longer than 8 feet. Each end is overlapped about an inch (top lap on the higher pitch side) , and copper pop rivets are fastened about 1 per inch along the seam to keep the gutter sections secure before soldering.

Image

It pays to buy a really good soldering iron so you can make a strong, neat looking joint. The proper soldering iron allows the fabricator to pull the solder along the copper which is especially important when soldering vertical seams. I've seen some old timers using charcoal pots and multiple
irons which need to be rotated in the pot to keep them the right temperature
for soldering. Cousineddie learned that way but I'll stick with the electric model. 8)
Image

It's also a good idea to pre-tin the seams so the solder is heated and evenly joined on both sides of the seams.

Another important point, any gutter over 32 ft. should have a break at mid-point to minimize excessive expansion and contraction.
It's actually like making two separate gutters with about an inch space in-between.
Safety Note: We always place red rosin paper under the copper sections. The paper allows the copper gutter to move more easily over the wood supports and also can prevent combustion of the underlying wood. :idea:
Image (excuse my foot)


The gap is then covered with piece of copper bent to catch both ends with a
little extra space to move with the gutter sections.
Image




Image
With a little practice, you can make some great looking gutters and seams.... :D


Next we'll take a look at screening in the old back porch...

Image
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby Kevin via FB » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:37 am

This is awesome. I totally need this approach for the modernist integral gutters at our house.

http://www.archiplanet.org/wiki/Watershed_House

:)
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Re: Enjoying the back porch

Postby unclebirgco » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:06 pm

A screened-in porch is the best way to win the "battle of the bug" without resorting to hi-tech gadgets or dangerous chemicals. Here are a few details and design ideas to make it the most popular space in the house.


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porch column base detail


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porch column moulding detail


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porch view from kitchen

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A view from the porch during construction and after porch build out with a little landscaping(below)



Image
closer view to the yard

Image
north yard view

Image
pastel green adirondack chairs with complimentary glass table

Image
french doors to porch view

Next we'll look at making a simple screen panel. :idea:
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby phansford » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:40 am

Does AuntBirgo let you drink Rolling Rock on that fancy porch..... or are you only allowed to drink tea, coffee, and wine coolers. :D
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Re: traditional new home project

Postby unclebirgco » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:25 pm

No drinkin allowed, but I do get about an hour access every other week..... after I finish with the chores.................:wink:
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